Lotto Ticket Payout (United Airlines)

I had to grab your attention with something, ‘Lotto ticket payout’.  For those of you that are in the majors, or have been furloughed from a major airline, you probably will not agree with that statement.  Keep in mind though, I am not really writing these words with you in mind as my audience.  My intention with this story is to give aspiring pilots, pilots just starting out, and pilots seeking my seat something to learn about the process (as it was 15 years ago).  

For the most part, landing a job with United was a great fortune.  Especially considering the fact that I did not go to college, and my vision is pretty much awful.  At the time I was hired, in 1997, United and UPS were the two places ‘to be’.  For me, it was a way out of a Corporate job that just did not pan out.  It was also a lotto ticket payout on an application that had been filled out, in pen, more than 18 months earlier.

The one thing it taught me (which I had surmised much earlier in my career), was that, you should always let the hiring company tell you wether you are the one they are looking for.  Do not allow others to tell you what you can and cannot achieve.  Those ‘experts’ you may be listening to, may have not made it to your goal, and are envious.  Or, they just plain don’t know what they are talking about.  Either way, you shoot for what you want, surround yourself with successful people, and leave the negativity behind.  

Don’t listen to the people that failed.  Find out what the people who are there have to say.

The Interview, June 4, 1997

I am going to interview ‘at the big show’.  I still can’t believe it.  The first thing I did when I got the letter, was call a good friend that I flew with during my Great Lakes years.  Mark Phillips, was a First Officer in Quincy, IL (he is now a Captain at United on the 737) while I was down there flying as Captain.  We flew many, many flights together.  And Mark had been hired in December of 1996, so he was more than familiar with the entire process.

The first question I had for Mark was, ‘Am I what United is looking for?’  Mark laughed.  I was not sure what to think immediately.  Mark, while flying at Great Lakes had United in his sights from day 1.  There was no question for him where he was going to work.  For me, I just wanted to fly and make a decent wage while being treated fairly.  So when Mark laughed at my question...I did not know what to think.

Mark said, ‘Shawn, first of all, College does not a good pilot make’.  Those words have stuck with me for a long time.  Secondly, he said, ‘You’re a great pilot, with a great personality, there is no reason that United should not hire you’.  I was touched, for one.  I was also very excited about my chances now.  Before, I was holding myself down because of the no college/bad vision combo.

With that call out of the way, I set out on a trail that would take me though the next 3 months.  It was a very long, tedious, and at times, tiring process.

The first order of business, was to call United back and set up an interview date.  Before I called, I had logged onto AOL, and went into the chat forums for Major Airlines.  In there, the talk was feverish, of interview letters, interviews, class dates, equipment assignments, etc.  There was plenty of material to read about this process.  So I knew from the reading that people getting letters in March, were looking at June interviews.  And that’s exactly what I drew, was a June 4 interview.

It is the middle of March.  I have 3 months to prepare for this thing.  Should be PLENTY of time.  In all reality, it was just enough.  Why?  There were a few things I needed to do before stepping foot in Denver, CO.  For one, I had to take my Flight Engineer written test.  I had not taken it because I was not actively pursuing that position.  Not with any other airline.  And I was not going to get crazy about it with United, unless I was invited to interview.  That test, for me, would be nothing more than studying the Gleim book on the FE Written, memorizing everything, and taking a test.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, I had to begin the filling out of paperwork.  United wanted 10 years of residence history.  Today, that’s a snap.  Two addresses.  Back then, it was a nightmare.  I had been in no less than 13 crew bases, and 5 homes.  The homes were easy, but the crash pads were different.  This involved phone calls to pilots still there, to collect addresses, and help with dates of occupancy. 

Also, a detailed list of employment, back, I believe 10 years.  This was a little easier, only 7 different companies/positions were listed on this form.  But, the form was also asking for dates of employment, addresses, phone numbers, and supervisors.  If some had changed...better get the new name.  Easy enough ‘work’, just very time consuming.

Driving records.  I believe this went back 10 years as well.  That was not bad at all...couple of phone calls, provide an address, done.

The gouge going around when I was interviewed was that you should have all the forms and supporting information typed, preferably by someone who knew what they were doing (not me).  So the first thing to do was make copies (plenty) of all the forms so that I could write on them first, and have the original copy typed out.  

I also needed a new suit.  Once again, gouge at that time was blue suit, small pin stripes ok, large not so much.  This was pretty consistent through everything I read, blue suit, blue suit, blue suit.

I ordered an interview book written by Cheryl Cage, of Cage Consulting.  She provided interview prep for airline applicants, specifically, United Airlines applicants.  I had to read this book, become very familiar with it, and be comfortable with all the content.  The book was outstanding!  It did not provide answers per se.  Instead, it provided a synopsis of what was going to happen.  And the type of questions that were going to be asked.  What the interviewers would be looking for.  Consistency, lies, stories that did not happen to you.  Indispensable resource for the interview process, I highly recommend this.

Of course, an applicant could always go to Cage Consulting and have a practice one on one interview with one the staff as well.  They video tape your mock interview, then debrief the process and tape with you.  That is also a very good way to prepare for the interview.

The other two things that I had to do from that point, were study and comb the logbooks.  Study would be in progress up until the morning of the interview.  The topics were unlimited.  Meteorology, aircraft systems (could be what your flying then, or what you have the most experience in), FAR’s, AIM, you name it.  Take your entire path of experience up to that point in your life, and it’s all free game in the interview.

Logbooks.  Ughhh.  I had 8,100 hours when I started at United.  That meant multiple logbooks.  It was suggested that you go back through and add everything up, page by page, to make sure all i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed.  And to verify the accuracy of what you had typed on the interview paperwork.  Not only that, but if any negative or ‘insinuating’ comments were in the remarks section of the logbook, it was also suggested those be erased.  I had a few, but that was not near the problem of just going back through each hour and making sure you had not misrepresented yourself- a possible dis-qualifier for the job.

I laid all this out in a timeline, each item had a projected time to complete, as well as a level of importance for the time remaining to interview.  For example, the driving records I started early.  I was dealing with State Government...better to be safe than sorry.  Then, I figured I had better tackle the FE Written.  Just in case I failed, I did not want to wait too long to find out there was was a problem, and miss a re-test window prior to interview.  The addresses, employers, housing information, all came day by day, and I could gather a lot of that info while working.

Oh yeah, I still had to fly a schedule at the corporation too.  But, having said that, I was only working about 10 days per month.  And, when I did work, usually, it involved long sits at the destination airport during the day, which gave me even more opportunity to study.  I cannot complain about time, I had plenty of time to complete all this work.

FE written day comes, and it’s a pass.  It should have been, it was almost 100 % memorization.  Driving records were in, housing/employers info was done.  I was complete ahead of schedule, which left me plenty of time to just plain study.  And study I did.  I have never worked so hard for anything related to Aviation.  I knew the King Air I was flying, I knew the King Air 1900 I had most of my hours in, and I was slowly becoming a student of meteorology.  I was always very weak with meteorology, so this was by far my biggest hurdle.  And I went as far as to call FSS once in a while and just ask questions about current charts.  Those guys were a world of help.

Through the months, I just continued to polish all the knowledge that I had acquired over the past 17 years.  I had been doing this for a while now.  It was all documented in my logbooks.  All I had to do on June 4 was show the interviewers I really had done all that flying.  But, from my previous experience of interviewing pilots for a part time job...I knew I had to impress with presentation, communication, courtesy, etc.  Getting along with the interviewers is 90% of the process, and is more important than most people realize.  When it all boils down from all the ‘foo-foo’, you need to be liked and taken seriously to be considered for the job.

The big day

I was nervous!  Of course, that goes without saying.  But, not as nervous as I could have been.  Why do I say that?  There are a lot of people that I flew with that had their sites on United, and United alone.  Imagine how I may have felt if I had worked all my life for this one moment.  I did not.  United was a lotto ticket.  If it payed out, fantastic!  If it did not, well, I would go back to Newell and continue to fly Corporate aviation.  That was my attitude.  Obviously, I wanted my previous 3 months of hard work to pay off too.

The interview was two part.  First part- meet a Line Captain and an HR representative.  This interview would typically last about 30 minutes.  Then you wait.  If it’s a pass, your SSN would appear at 5 pm on the glass door of the interviewing area.

Part two, (assuming you passed part 1) was a flight test, performed in a Frasca simulator.  This simulator, had a history of being a ‘tough fly’.  If you did not practice on one, it could prove very difficult to pass the 6 phases of testing.

My time of interview was mid morning.  It began by checking in with a receptionist in the interview area.  From there, you enter a small room with about 15 chairs, a few coffee type tables, sprinkled with magazines.  For my time frame, there were 6 of us in the room.  On the other side of the room, a door.  Through this door, every once in a while, a Captain would appear, call a name, and take that applicant behind the door.  The Captain would show up after the interviewing room was open and he/she had looked over your interview packet, your logbooks, and any other supporting documentation with the HR person.

There was much said about what to do in this room.  Do you pick up a magazine?  Do you chat with the others? (duh)  Do you just sit there?  I just chatted with everyone that was willing.  I was taking a head count to see what the experience level in the room was.  Some were military, most were just like me, commuter pilots.  

One by one, the applicants were taken behind the door.  6 to 5.  5 to 4, 4 to 2, and finally the last person (not me) left the room.  And there I sat.  Alone.  I sat alone for what seemed to be 10 minutes!  It was playing with my head a little.  But I remained focused.  I spent that time to categorize my stories, i case I was asked ‘about a time when’ question.

Finally my Captain opens the door.  He calls my name and smiles big.  I stood up, offered my hand, and introduced myself.  It was an instant good feeling, I knew this was a good guy.  

I followed him to my interview room.  On the way there, I was thinking that if the HR person was as nice as this guy appeared to be, that this may go pretty well.

As I entered the room, the HR lady stood up and offered her hand.  We shook hands, and they offered me a seat.  I sat down, with butterflies tearing me up!  There was some small talk, how was your flight, how is your room, etc.  Then it began.

I do not remember each question specifically.  I remember sections of the interview.  

The first notable section was focused on my lack college education.  Rightfully so, only about 2% of the pilots here at United have no college.  But, I was asked why I did not go, if I was presently studying anything, whether I planned on attending college in the future, etc.  I was straight up honest with them.  I told them I did not go because I was given a choice at 15 years old, and I my choice then was no.  I just wanted to fly airplanes, make a decent wage, and get treated well.  That does not require any further education beyond high school.  I also told them, that since I already had 3 type ratings, was a Captain at a Commuter airline, and had been flying for 17 years already, I had proven that I can study and accomplish tasks.  And I finished up by stating that I was not studying anything then, and did not plan on studying anything in the future as long as I could maintain a FAA Medical and find a job flying an airplane.  I did ok in school.  I did really well  with subjects that I liked (auto shop, woodworking, computers, electronics, etc.).  English 101, in college, for example would be a big ‘yawn’ for me.  Unless the subject held my attention, and I was in college for that subject only...I told the interviewers that my money and time were going to be put to better use somewhere else.

The second part was the ‘tell me about a time when’ type questions.  They are looking for character, integrity, flight experience, and problem solving abilities with these questions.  By reading the Cheryl Cage book, I knew that I needed stories for these questions.  These stories are found in your logbook.  Maybe you made a comment in the entry in your logbook about a flight that had something irregular happen.  Maybe you had an issue with a pilot, a flight attendant, a passenger.  These types of things work perfectly for the questions.  Your job, is to find and categorize these stories, but not to formulate the story.  Have the details down, but not the story itself.  Anyway, I had 3 of those questions.  

One story I used focused on an approach, missed approach, and diversion to LIncoln, NE after a late night flight from Denver to Grand Island, NE.  Short story, I let the Captain take the situation too far, and we ended up trying to land in the gust front of  a very large thunderstorm.  I was ok with the approach until the airplane suddenly turned about 30 degrees into the new wind, then was shaken so violently that the dirt in the carpet became airborne in the cockpit along with anything else that was not tied down.  That violent shake took place 3 times before we could fly out of it, diverting to Lincoln, NE.  It was a great story to use, mainly because it really happened and it feels like yesterday (although it was 15 years ago).

Then, the mental math questions.  ‘You are cruising at FL 370, and are given clearance to cross an intersection at FL 250, when should you start down’.  And I was told to talk them through my mental math.  Well, in the course of figuring this out, I was a small airplane out the window and my mind drifted.  Not from the problem, but from telling them how I was deriving the answer.  I ended up telling them the right answer, but had not provided any detail as to how I got it.  After I gave the answer, I apologized for not verbalizing my thought process...the Captain said ‘That’s ok’.  

All the while, both interviewers are taking a lot of notes.  They rarely look at you, and just keep writing.  You have no idea what they are writing.  The notes are later reviewed by a board that ultimately decides wether you get the job or not.  They need some data to make their decision, so that’s the reason for the notes.

The last section of the interview dealt with some aircraft system questions.  I mentioned earlier that they tend to focus on airplanes in which you have the most experience in.  For my question, they chose the Beech 1900.  The Captain asked me to explain the function of the hydraulic system as it pertained to the landing gear, or more specifically, what happens as the gear handle is raised and lowered.  

This was a perfect question for me.  I was very comfortable with the landing gear/hydraulic system.  As I explained the system though, I decided to include the HR lady.  I divided my eye contact between her and the Captain as well as keeping the explanation non-technical enough that the HR lady could follow along.  I figured if the Captain wanted more specific information, he could ask when I was done.  At that time, I would focus on him alone.  They both smiled large when I finished and said thank you for that.

The last question was, ‘What are you going to do if United does not decide to hire you?’  I had heard of a wrong way to answer this one.  So I chose what I felt was reality.  I told them that I would be disappointed if United decided not to hire me today.  I also said that if I was not hired, I would go back to Newell, and continue flying the King Air in a corporate environment.  And then I said that when my window re-opened to apply with United again, I would do so, and hope for another chance to interview.

That was it!  I spent 45 minutes in the room with the interviewers.  Most of the people I spoke with had a 30 minute interview.  But, I believe, that most of my extra time was spent on the college issue.

It was now about 1:30 pm.  The applicants that are hired, are displayed by SSN at 5 pm.  I had 3 and 1/2 hours to wait.  So I went back to my room, called my wife and told her I was probably coming home.  (If phase 1 is successful, then you stay for day 2, which is the simulator evaluation)  I was not real sure of what was going to happen.  As a whole, I thought I did ok.  With all the note taking, non eye contact, and lack of body language though...I had reservation.

It was also at this point in the day, that I found an Anniversary card in my suitcase.  It was my 3 rd wedding anniversary, and I just realized it!  I had been so focused on this day, that everything else was just not in sight.  I called my wife back to apologize for not thinking about this day, and she told me she understood completely.  

At 4:45, I could not stand it any longer.  I left my room, and headed for the interview area.  On the way there, I am passing people that I had seen the past few days.  Most were walking with a look of disappointment on their face.  Understandable, United was turning away about 34 of 40 people interviewed every day.  This number was alarmingly high, and, I think, a good reason why I was there in the first place.

I walked up to the glass with pulse racing.  This was it, 3 months preparation was either worth it, or a wasted opportunity.  As I looked at the list, there were only 8 SSN’s on the list.  Top to bottom, where am I?  And there I was, at the bottom of that list.  I was ‘in’!

I could not believe it.  I had really done it.  And on the first try.  As I stood there, re-reading the list, making sure that was me, I was starting to feel it.  Feel like I was maybe going to be part of this huge airline with International presence.  At the same time, I was trying not to appear too happy, for many people that I were talking to that day were not on that list.

Also, I was now somewhat frantic.  I had scheduled an hour in a Frasca simulator, one hour south of Denver, just in case I passed.  It was sort of expensive, so I left it to last minute, thinking I can cancel and not lose any money if I don’t pass phase 1.  I had also rented a car, but not picked it up yet.  And the sim session began at 6:30 pm.  So, I had to go back to my room, gather some documentation, go rent the car, and drive 1 hour south to be on time for this precious one hour simulator practice session.  

Well, that all came together just fine.  The simulator session was invaluable.  There were quirks, tricks, and plenty of gouge to fly this thing correctly, or more importantly, the way that would score me the job.  The sim session consisted of six phases.  You were scored on many things.  Smoothness, timing, accuracy to name a few.  Between each phase, a short brief on what was expected next.  And the final phase, an ILS approach with winds that turn about the airplane 360 degrees down the approach with, if I remember right, a fire warning or some warning horn going off at the last few hundred feet.

That done, I head back to the hotel for a good nights rest.  My sim ride is 8 am the next morning.  After that, good or bad, I fly back to Rockford, IL and resume my flying schedule with Newell.

The next day, I show up at 7:30.  As my sim time approaches, the proctor comes out and introduces himself.  He seems like a great guy as well.  He tells me though, that the sim is broken, and it’s going to be a while before we can begin the sim ride.  As it turned out, we began 3 hours later.  The proctor (a retired United Captain) came out many times, apologizing for the delay.  I told him it was fine, and that I did not have anywhere to go.

The sim ride went great.  I don’t think anything went wrong.  At the end of the ride, the proctor leaned forward, shook my hand, and said, ‘When you get out here, call me and we’ll go to lunch’.  I knew what he was saying, and I said Thank you so much for that.  That, being, the notification that the ride was a success, thus dismissing any doubt that the sim ride would be the obstacle or reason for me getting hired.

All that remained now, was the boards review of my interview packet, my interview itself, and sim ride.  There is always some element of doubt in your mind until you know the fact.

I flew home, went back to work, and waited.  Gouge was, that if you did not get a call within 5 days, you were going to get a letter at about the two week point after the interview.  The letter saying, ‘thanks for your interest, but....’, and he call being an offer for employment.  

My call came in 3 days.  I was MORE than elated.  It was one of the happiest days in my aviation career.  All of the work, all the time spent, all of the sacrifices made through 8 years since leaving high school...had paid off.  This was going to be a new chapter in my life, one that I never thought would be written.  Corinne, my other half, was obviously very happy as well.  Ultimately, it meant that she would one day ‘retire’ early as we kid around with.  It meant a lot of things.

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